Please note this is an automated transcript and as a result it may contain errors

Katherine May: [00:00:00] Hello, this is Katherine May here. Welcome to The Clearing Podcast. You find me taking a quick stroll around the block for a little bit of fresh air in a break between the weather. We’ve had it all this week, wind and rain. Every time I’ve tried to step outside the front door, it seems to me that the weather has said, uh, no.

You don’t go back inside again. And I don’t mind a bit of wintery weather, but sometimes you start to feel very stuck in, don’t you? Ah, this is really lovely actually. It’s turned into a beautiful still. December day, [00:01:00] my last leaves are still clinging to the trees yellow around me. The birds are singing away ’cause they enjoy a little bit of sunshine.

Everything feels very still and peaceful. You need more days like this. I don’t think anyone would mind winter if it was like this every day. I hope you’re all very well. I am really pleased to provide you with another delightful discussion of a dream retreat this week by Melissa Hemsley, who you may well know.

From her cookbooks. She’s written six of them. That’s amazing, [00:02:00] isn’t it? Her latest one is called Real Healthy and it does what she does best, which is to offer food that feels like it really nourishes you and sustains your energy levels in a really positive way, which I need right now, but which is also absolutely tempting and delicious and full of sunshine.

You can tell this is real life ’cause someone just cycled a bike past me coughing and I’m about to post someone with a drill. Unfortunately, oh nature. It was one of my ambitions to attract Melissa to this podcast because she’s just such a massive ray of sunshine and. I think most of her work speaks to not seeking out a kind of [00:03:00] bland, imaginary good life, but finding ways to make life just that little bit better by taking good care of ourselves.

And so I was so thrilled to talk to her, to finally meet her after saying hello online a few times, very tentatively. And also to hear about her dream retreat, which is tinged with some slight concerns that I think many of us will relate to. She talks a lot about how somebody who is prone to anxiety and who comes from a long line of anxious people.

It can be very hard to dream of things that feel safe, that feel uncomplicated and [00:04:00] straightforward, and I love it. As I said to Melissa during the interview, when people are willing to share their wheel, little edges that may feel really like something that is just there for them and that everybody else will be thinking, Ooh, what’s that?

Because we all know that when people do that we’ll breathe a massive sigh of relief and think, yeah, my head would get in the way of that too. But nevertheless, she has provided us with a very Disney princess kind of retreat in all the best possible ways with friendly woodland creatures gathering to join us.

It’s always lovely to hear from someone who so clearly loves animals as much as I do, and for whom a retreat wouldn’t be complete without it. Anyway, settle down with a good cup of tea for this one and enjoy this little bit of retreat [00:05:00] sunshine. I’ll be back with you after. Melissa. Welcome to The Clearing.

It is so lovely to have you here. I’m 

Melissa Hemsley: delighted. It feels like a dream. It’s gonna be strange reading your books now, knowing that I know you. Yeah. And we’re friends. Yeah. It’s a weird thing. Thing as of as of 15 minutes ago, we’re gonna know all about each other. Now we know all about, and I know that I want to live in your living room.

One day I see Cat. I see a 

Katherine May: cat pillow. I see a fire. I see Burkes. All the things, all the necessary things. There’s a, there are Christmas presents with a blanket over them. For me, not for you. You’re organized. I’m not buying you a monitor. 

Melissa Hemsley: Who’s that going to, and do they know? Oh, 

Katherine May: my son? 

Melissa Hemsley: Well, they listen to this podcast and know he won’t listen to my 

Katherine May: podcast.

God, how disinterested do you. He absolutely will not be listening. 

Melissa Hemsley: What does he think of, of Wintering, for example, does he, is he [00:06:00] proud? 

Katherine May: Yeah, he had a, is he aware that it’s your interview? Me already. Best seller. Well, he went through a phase when he was younger of telling all his friends that I was famous.

And then he came across a boy who had a much more famous uncle who had been on East Enders and he got into an argument at school about who was the most famous. I was like, you, you have lost that argument. Like writers are never that famous. 

Melissa Hemsley: Your book might Vic being referenced on East Enders. Someone might have sat in a corner of the Old Vic with a pint reading.

Wintering reading wintering. I somehow doubt it, but who knows? My daughter just likes to go through my books and just touch the recipes and go, oh, that’s lovely. Will you make this for me? She’s got this thing where she really goes up at the end. I probably do that too. Oh. And I’m like, oh, I can’t be bothered.

Let’s get something out the freezer. And she hasn’t quite, I think she’s just suddenly realized that I’ve got these cookbooks. She doesn’t get what they are. But yeah, [00:07:00] I’m always like, get it out the freezer, which is I think, the dream way to cook. Yeah. Having that cook when you got the energy, pull it out the freezer every other 99% of the time.

My freezer is 

Katherine May: like some kind of crypt where things go in and 

Melissa Hemsley: never come out again. 

Katherine May: They 

Melissa Hemsley: just go in and no forgotten. And every now and then we have a freezer week. Well, yeah. When was the last time you were pleasantly surprised by what was in your freezer? Oh, last week 

Katherine May: actually, I pulled out a pot of Dar, which really excited me.

I love Dar. It’s my favorite thing. Yeah, me too. Um, I ate so much of it. I was like one of those boa constrictors, like digesting a whole alligator for about three days. So I was, I got over excited. 

Melissa Hemsley: I’m sorry, dah. Is do’s a really good one to find in the freezer? For me, it’s, it’s some sort of bolognese. The only thing is though, is that.

I’ve got a, you know, a decent sized freezer, but then my dog, I’ve got her on this food that comes frozen and it’s raw. 

Katherine May: Oh yes. So now she’s, 

Melissa Hemsley: God love her. She’s taking up half my freezer. Um, so my freezer, I’m a [00:08:00] bit more limited. It’s all dog food. It’s all dog food. And, and you know what it looks like good stuff, but there’s a bit duck and duck with liver for tonight, which I think I’ll pass on for her Lucky dog though.

Yeah, we thought about that. That, so she’s almost 12. Oh, she needs to, she’s almost 12 and she needs good food. I mean, she, she, she’s always had good food, but especially at the moment, she needs all the support she can get. 

Katherine May: Bless her. As we all do. As we all do. Yeah. We all need duck and liver in the freezer.

So is this going to be a very food led retreat or will you be escaping from food for this? 

Melissa Hemsley: Well, it depends. It depends if I can. Um, it depends If I can allow myself to chop slowly, stir slowly. And just slow because I love cooking when, well, I like cooking fast and frazzled, but then I don’t feel fantastic afterwards.

You cook, cook, cook, cook, cook. You sit down at the table, you could be ravenous. You’re more likely than not ravenous, and then you eat it in such a [00:09:00] flurry. I like communal cooking. I really like, I don’t see, I’m not a big fan of, oh, let’s all cook together, like come around to my house and, you know, pour a glass of wine.

I like, I just feel like that’s, I’m a bit too of much of a control feat for that. Yeah. But on my retreat, if we had this, it’s so funny, I think I’ll just keep repeating words if I had the time I’d and I do on this, don’t I? Yeah, you do. So you have all the time you want. I have all the time. So yeah, I think I’d really enjoy, um, the cooking together or just me.

Um, and I’d like to be, you know, music on or. Well, I’ll tell you where I am in a minute, but maybe I won’t have any sound ’cause I won’t feel the need to fill my brain with things and I’ll just really enjoy the sound of nature. 

Katherine May: It’ll be like a quiet moment. And are you the sort of person that does take time out?

I mean, you’ve got, you’ve got a young child and another one on the way, which I know makes it way harder. Yeah. But do you make, do you have time alone? Do you get away from it [00:10:00] all or are you someone that just keeps Not really. I mean, 

Melissa Hemsley: I mean, for example, I feel like this hour with you is my absolute treat for the day.

That’s your great, oh God. I’m so sorry. No, I’m loving it. I’m absolutely loving it. I’ve, I’m, I’m sat down. Everybody knows not to disturb me. I hope they honor that. Um, and I’ve got my liquid refreshment and I’ve got, I’ve got a bit of hand cream. I might even put some hand cream on for the first time. Do you know what.

I’m gonna join you 

Katherine May: because, do you know what? Mine’s little, unfortunately, but, um, 

Melissa Hemsley: we’re gonna go, well, you know what? This time of year, um, my eczema really flares and actually shout out to this lovely small brand. They’re called balmond, and this product’s called Skin Salvation. Ooh. And, um, I, I, I really find it helps me, I’ve, I’ve always on off since birth, really suffered from eczema and, um, but actually during [00:11:00] pregnancy it gets better because apparently your immune system lowers so as not to reject the PTUs.

And so it’s been good, but, but you have a brief, brief, like respite this hour with you is I’ve just put hand cream on. I’ve been wanting to do all day. I’m drinking my liquid. I’ve even got this, oh my God, she’s got hers too. I’ve got one square of chocolate that I found in a coat pocket. 

Katherine May: I love that you’ve turned this into a retreat rather than the conversation about a retreat.

But this is, this is a retreat. This is the actual hour. Maybe 

Melissa Hemsley: that’s, I’m hydrating. We’re hydrating. Maybe this is, this is one thing I am not good at, but like I’ve learned is I try and do mini retreats throughout the day. So like, right. I don’t, I know bit of hand cream, chocolate, hydration. Don’t always get the chance to do it.

I’ve realized even before I had kids, um, I feel like I’ve been, in a weird way, I feel like I’ve been trying to have kids for such a long time because it’s been a long IVF process. Not, not as long as loads of other people’s actually. Yeah. I’ve come to realize. Um, but it wasn’t an [00:12:00] instant kind of like, oh, I’m gonna have kids pop here.

They’re, yeah. So it feels like my body’s been sort of hyperstimulated through drugs and sort of ready to carry for a while. So. With that said, and that of course has brought in tons of mental health challenges on top of what I already had and things like that, and physical symptoms. So yeah, in a funny way, there’s been so many times where I’ve not gone on holiday or not gone on a retreat or pulled out something ’cause I haven’t felt well or it conflicts with something.

This probably happens to lots of people. So I then tried to find little mini retreats. Mm day, you know, day. So for example, today I also managed to get to a pregnancy yoga class, which really lovely. And there was a woman there who wasn’t pregnant. She was like, sorry to gate crash girls, but this is the only one I could come to.

And we were like, yeah, it’s all yoga, isn’t it? Because it’s all yoga. Yeah. And we just had a lot, we, we spent most of the time and she said, I’m hoping we’re gonna spend most of the time lying on our sides. And we did. [00:13:00] And that’s just what she needed. And she’s actually, she is actually a mom of teenagers.

Um, but I thought that was really lovely. She was like making it work for her. So I think. That’s so wise. I think that there’s quite a lot of compromise of that, making it work and going, oh, it would be nice if I could do this, but at the same time I’m gonna do this. 

Katherine May: And that’s good enough. It’s easy to be convinced that you’re just too busy to do anything restful and that you absolutely have to keep going and you, I mean, I, I really try hard to just have a little walk every day to go and I’m about five minute walk from the sea.

Just try and go and see the sea every day. Love it. If you kind of keep that as a rule, you’ll just get a little walk even on the busiest days and it’s, yeah, it’s something. 

Melissa Hemsley: Five minutes. Oh, oh, she’s got a lip bum. I, I might have to try and a 

Katherine May: lip 

Melissa Hemsley: bump. Lemme go into my drawer. What have I got here? 

Katherine May: We’re just, we’re gonna be so moisturized by the end of this process.

Melissa Hemsley: I love it though, because I’m, I’ve, I’ve always loved, you know, those [00:14:00] features in magazines and things where it’ll be like, what’s in her handbag or what’s in her drawer? What’s on your desk? I love. There’s probably an Instagram account called Views from People’s Desks. Oh, will you swear to take me a picture of yours and send it?

Even if I can’t share it. Okay. It’s beautiful. Uh, but no, but 

Katherine May: it’s the real life. I’m looking. There’s an asthma inhaler, two tubes of hang cream, an aspirin inhaler, two tubes of hand cream, a passport, some ink and pens. 

Melissa Hemsley: I’m looking at a voucher that someone gave me when my daughter was born and I need to call up and see if it’s still valid.

Still valid, 

Katherine May: yeah. Is how these things work. Right. Let’s get into this. So welcome to the Clearing where your retreat awaits. Tell me where we are. Tell me the landscape that we are landing in. 

Melissa Hemsley: I’m gonna close my eyes. Mm, we are, I don’t know specifically [00:15:00] where it is. I’m think I’m making it up. I think I’m yet to find it.

We. We’re also five minutes from the sea, Catherine, but I swear I haven’t just moved in next door to you. That’s fine. You can, I can see the sea. But for my own anxiety, we’re not too close to the sea. Should there be a tsunami, a flood, or a cliff fall? Um, safe to think. Gonna see I gonna safe distance from the sea.

We can also see rolling hills. Mm. And although I love an autumn tree, I, there’s, there’s some evergreen going on as well. So there’s lovely, there’s lovely leaf edge and foliage around. Mm. There’s some animals. Ooh. But I don’t want forest animals. Um, or seagulls. Ooh, 

Katherine May: ooh. 

Melissa Hemsley: I don’t wanna be mean about seagulls, but No, I’d rather they didn’t.

They have watched the show Puff and Rock. 

Katherine May: No, I 

Melissa Hemsley: don’t think I 

Katherine May: have 

Melissa Hemsley: a sweet, it might be after my time. Yeah. And um, [00:16:00] it’s one of the more relaxing TV shows, so I try and encourage her to watch it instead of, you know, cocoa melon or whatever she’s someone else’s has, she’s watched at someone’s house. But, um, the sea girls are in it.

But I, I used to not like pigeons and then I read about how amazing pigeons are and how they helped us, you know, win the war and how, how, how loyal and wonderful they are and how we’ve sort of used them and just chuck them out. And now I challenge myself to look at pigeons. They’re beautiful colors.

Katherine May: They’re sort of purple and 

Melissa Hemsley: stuff. 

Katherine May: They, oh, sometimes you get a hint of green as well. Yeah. They’re also seabirds, originally they are cliff dwelling birds that have adapted to the urban environment. And so now high, high rise buildings are their cliffs. Pigeon fact. She’s good. 

Melissa Hemsley: She’s, and now I’ve forgotten that I actually need to say something because I’m now in my Catherine May world of listening to you.

So yeah, there’s, I’m sorry, I’m gonna say there’s no seagulls, but there are, that’s, there’s red squirrels. I’ve only ever seen [00:17:00] red squirrel once on the, on, on the aisles of silly, which is my also, but maybe this, to be honest, maybe this retreat is sort of inspired by the isles of silly. Have you ever been to them?

I never have. And I’ve always wanted to tell me what they’re like. ’cause they look so beautiful. They’re, I think they’re up the oa. Oh yeah. So they’re 27. Yeah, they’re 27 miles west of the west, most westerly point of Cornwall. Oh no. The most southerly point of Cornwall. So like, they’re the most west and south part Yes.

Of the uk. And um, is there, there’s five or six. So there’s one that’s, that no one lives on. And there there’s, um, Tresco, which is sort of the posh one. Right. That’s lovely. And, but you know, the dogs, dogs can’t stay overnight, so I never stay on that one. And then there’s Agnes and Briar, and actually I have asked my partner to, um, cremate me and throw me off Briar.

Oh, that’s because it’s quite dramatic. And, and, and also [00:18:00] gorgeous. And there’s not a huge amount of, I mean, it’s, it people are working really hard to earn a living. There’s, there’s, there’s industry and there used to be lots of flower farms. Um. And there’s a beautiful brand, I’ve just forgotten the name on Westwood Farm.

And they used to be the, the guy’s mum used to have like the biggest, one of the biggest and best flower farms. And then Oh wow. Things took over in the Netherlands and people stopped buying English. Yeah. Uh, voted. And then now they use the farms for making beautiful soaps and, and things. And then they do holiday.

Lets, and you know, everyone’s working really hard and there’s one secondary school, and the kids, you know, go on little boats. Anyway, it’s heaven. So I, I think lovely. I hadn’t actively thought that, but now that it’s just come up, I, I think I’m probably thinking of, um, silly. And it’s, it’s S-C-I-L-L-Y. Oh, it’s just heaven.

Um, so yes, that’s, that’s my view. And it’s warm enough, [00:19:00] like, as you can see, I’m sweat. It’s winter. I’m hot. Yeah. Hot, hot. But, so it’s warm enough to not feel. A chill. Mm-hmm. But it’s cool enough that I’m not sweating because I’m quite a rev, uh, revved up person. Yeah. I run too hot. I get short tempered and I hate that about myself.

So I like to be warm but not hot enough because that then makes me anxious. 

Katherine May: So is this, is this quite a kind of, um, isolated vibe? Is it, is it sort of glorious solitude or are you gonna be near other people? 

Melissa Hemsley: Well, there’s definitely some islands that are busier than others. Again, it’s that thing of I want to be around people.

’cause I don’t want the ax murderer to target me. Um, because that’s how my thought process goes. But at the same time, I love peace. And then I also, I’m such a, um, I was about to say hypochondriac. I’m a hypochondriac and a hypocrite because I love the idea that someone’s gonna pop around. Okay. But I also love the idea of no one bothering me.

So [00:20:00] what we to 

Katherine May: arrange you is like a kind of glamorous, friendly neighbor who can just drop in maybe with some like cool ingredients that they’ve grown in their garden. 

Melissa Hemsley: I would love, I never had a granny. I, you know, I was B, my granny’s died before I was born. I’d, I’d love a granny type figure. Or a grandparents.

Yes. And I love older people to. And I haven’t had enough of them around me. So I’d love, I’d love someone to drop round or maybe I go to them and do a job for them. Mm. Maybe we do a little book swap and she’s made scones or he’s got like a little bit of brandy and a story to tell in front of the fire and dogs best friends holiday.

I’ve only called you about the animals outside. Oh, that’s it. The red, the red squirrels. That’s what got me onto silly, isn’t it? That’s right. Yeah. Of course you yeah’s red squirrels. So there’s red squirrels, there’s foxes outside. I can see them out the window. Maybe there’s some ducks and geese, but again, I don’t wanna worry about the foxes getting them everybody’s very mm-hmm.

It’s very banian families. Yeah. No one’s killing each other. Cooperative animals. Yeah. There’s robins, uh, there’s kingfishers. Oh, wow. Um, [00:21:00] my dad loved kingfish. I, I feel like I’ve seen, you know, a pass, a fish and chip shop and it’s called the Kingfisher. And I’m like, whoa, hi dad, or blah, blah, blah, blah. And, or, or some, someone sweetly gave me, um, a little broach type thing and I just, I’ll spot a kingfisher and then in my house.

And also safe to roam free without fear of being run over or going off this cliff. Um, like rescue, uh, you know, dogs, rescue dogs. Rescue cats. Well, just how many, how many are we talking? Um, enough that I can give them all the enough love, but not enough that, um, there’s nowhere to sit down and lie down. I dunno what that number would be.

They’re gonna kind of pile around you as you, as you Oh yeah. And at bedtime, everybody’s like, cozied up. 

Katherine May: It’s lovely, lovely. This is, this is kind of like a snow white vision of, oh gosh. Is that what you got of a retreat? 

Melissa Hemsley: And then obviously my [00:22:00] allergies and eczema. Yeah. That’s all gonna go right. That’s all gonna go.

And um, they would never poo, I would never have to be picking up poop. There’d be no, I feel like that that’s a fulltime job with dogs. And, and if you had that many dogs and cats, there would be quite, well, there’d be poo or they’d be able to like, you know, their poo would sort of fertilize the earth and rein remineralize the soil and wow.

The animals would regenerate earth. This is amazing. Climate crisis would be, yeah. There’s no climate crisis on this retreat. This is great. Can I come? I, so this is it, even though I don’t think I’ve ever climbed a tree, I’ve. I only had one animal really in my life. ’cause my dad was in the army, so we had rats and mice.

We had animals with a short shelf life as it were. Yeah, yeah. Because we never knew where we were going port. So I’m now this in military, I’m this really relaxed, very competent person that can climb trees and be self-sufficient and live off grid. But while at the same time being able to pop to a nice shop.

Yeah. And have a lovely neighbor next door who will [00:23:00] rely on me to do things that they need, that I would then know how to do. That’s 

Katherine May: interesting. So they need you, you don’t need them. They, I do like to be needed. Yeah. I know those animals need you too. That’s kind of, but actually I need 

Melissa Hemsley: them most, it’s an insight.

Most an insight. Um, yeah. And everything around me would basically be a bit like your living room. There’d be books, soft lighting, comfy fire. Again, a fire that wouldn’t ever burn down the house. Yes. And candles also not allowed to burn down the house. Brain. 

Katherine May: So, so we’re retreat in a land free of anxiety.

Oh, you’ve nailed it. You, that would be my, that would do you worry a lot in everyday life. Like I, you know, are you one of those people that are, you know, driven by avoiding unsafe rather than Yeah. And, and, and 

Melissa Hemsley: I’ve done so much work on it, Catherine as well. But the thing is, and I’d, you know, you are saying your son wouldn’t listen to your podcast or you read your books.

Katherine May: Yeah. 

Melissa Hemsley: I, I hope my mom wouldn’t listen [00:24:00] to this, but now I’m 40 and a mom and I’ve known this for a while. It, it’s always a funny one when I see my mom. ’cause I love her to bits and I love spending time with her also, you know, my dad died 10 years ago, so I’m like, every year with my mom is every day with my mom’s a bonus.

I know lots of people who can’t be with their moms, but she does rev my anxiety up and a lot of her fears have really ingrained in me. So one of the things I’m trying so hard to do is not put any of those on my daughter. Right. 

Katherine May: Uh, yeah. 

Melissa Hemsley: Which is really hard to do. ’cause I know that there’s no way loads of things I do good and bad will be influencing her in some way.

But it is something I think about all the time, you know? Mm-hmm. She, and, and, but the good thing is she’s two and a half. She’s pretty, you know, I don’t know that many other two and a half year olds, I’m only starting to be in a world where two and a half year olds are my world. But she’s, she’s pretty fearless.

She loves water, she loves trees, she loves [00:25:00] jumping. She got to any dog. I’m always like, ask mom and dad. Um, and she, so yeah, I love that. And it makes me both sad that I’m not like that. And also happy that my like, oh, be careful. Is, is, is not, you really let her do that. Playing on her. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It’s 

Katherine May: really hard.

It’s hard not to. What are you like with your boy? Uh, yeah, I’m the same. Do you know what I’m, it’s funny because I think I’m getting worse as he gets older in a funny sort of a way. Oh, I, I’m now, I’ve found this really anxious little streak in me at the moment where I’m bit like, don’t do that. And I’m, and he’s like, mom, what?

You know, he’s 13 now. He’s like big and solid. He’s taller than me. It’s funny how it comes through in wave. It’s almost like you hold it back for as long as you can and then your weird comes out like without your control. I love that 

Melissa Hemsley: your weird comes out. Your weird comes out. So was he when you start it?

When, well, how, how old was he when, [00:26:00] when Wintering, 

Katherine May: when it came out. So he was, what year are we? So he was like seven when I was writing it. 

Melissa Hemsley: Yeah. Seven when, okay, fine. Yeah. Okay, good. Then I know 

Katherine May: then I know when my daughter’s seven, I might be able to do stuff. Yeah. Although I did, I mean I wrote a lot of wintering in soft play centers, so yeah.

Oh, so yeah. Love that. Yeah. Yeah. That was not my favorite place to write, but weirdly productive 

Melissa Hemsley: for me. Oh really? You able to drown it out? See, I can’t do the soft play center. I’m like, not the parent that soft play centers. I’m lucky that I’ve got the option to bow out of things like the soft play center and gymnastics.

Oh my God. My boyfriend will send me a picture of her on a balance beam and I’m be like, looks fun slash 

Katherine May: bring her 

Melissa Hemsley: home on. Would you find that, 

Katherine May: would you find that worrying though? Like would you kind of be Oh God, yeah. Even when I see the picture, yeah. Okay. 

Melissa Hemsley: But, but it’s funny because at the same time, um, you know, my daughter was just putting up some lights.[00:27:00] 

On the Christmas tree and she was on a chair, and I didn’t send the picture of her to my mom because I knew the first thing my mom would do. She’d worry 

Katherine May: as well. No, I know it. I know it. My mom worries a lot. I, I remember sending a picture of my son on a standup huddled board, um, and my mum was like, take him off there.

He’s gonna drown. I was just like, oh, 

Melissa Hemsley: oh, I’m so glad to know that you’ve got that too. You recognized that kind of 

Katherine May: family. Has that got worse for 

Melissa Hemsley: her? Yeah. Has that got worse 

Katherine May: for her as she’s got older or is she like that? No, it’s stayed about the same. It’s it’s been pretty consistent her life, I think.

Yeah, she’s always been quite Oh, so you get her, 

Melissa Hemsley: you get her. 

Katherine May: Yeah. Yeah. But you think yours is more of 

Melissa Hemsley: a streak at the moment that you’re going through? 

Katherine May: I, yeah, I think so. I, I think it’s just that they hit new ages that you don’t quite understand what their. Boundaries and capacities are yet. Mm-hmm. And so you have to adjust all over again to like, can he do this?

Is this okay? And that’s, yeah. Yeah. It’s quite tricky [00:28:00] 

Melissa Hemsley: because you’re playing tricky alongside him. Mm-hmm. 

Katherine May: Yeah. You are. And you, they change really fast and they change really naturally. And you have to consciously change every time they change. Oh yeah. 

Melissa Hemsley: That’s so true. That this is all natural for them.

Katherine May: Yeah. They’re reaching really interesting. Whereas you’re like, oh, I’ve gotta adapt again. I’ve already, I thought I’d adapted and now here’s another layer of adaptation. Yeah. And the fourth, there’s nowhere to go. Yeah. Yeah, that’s right. It’s, I can’t change again. Oh, I have to finally, right. I’m putting on with this chat.

Melissa Hemsley: The cardigan is going on. Yeah, you’ve gotta get warm. I’ve gotta get warm. I finally stopped sweating as I 

Katherine May: entered my retreat, so yeah. Are you gonna be wearing like, snuggly cardigans on retreat? What’s the, what’s the vibe here? 

Melissa Hemsley: My, my dream, you know, as well as the anxiety, it’s the, it’s the, um, something that I don’t [00:29:00] love about myself to add to the list is this thing of, I don’t have like a fear of missing out in the sense of parties and things like that.

I have no desire to go to parties, and I’m glad because it’s, I’ve got plenty more that I fear of missing out on. But you say that to me that you ask, Hey, okay, you are asking me a question. And I’m terrified. I’m gonna make the wrong answer. Not in your mind. In my own mind. It’s like I’m scared to commit to it.

Mm. So in my head I’m like, yes, I do like being cuddly, but then at the same time, I know how good it feels when it’s warm enough, but not too hot to be sweaty when it’s warm enough to have the sun on your skin and the buoy. Mm. And one thing I’ve been thinking about, ’cause my daughter, her name is Summer.

She was due on the summer solstice of 2023 and she came a bit early. But one thing that was really lovely was that we could be [00:30:00] pretty much naked together in those first three months. Which ied? It was warm. It was warm. I was really warm that year and I loved the skin on skin. And, um. It’s probably the close.

No, I’d say like, you know, I, I, I managed to breastfeed and it was hot, so I was basically pretty much naked for three months. Like, it’s not often you can do that in life. No, no, it’s true. Like, well, you can’t, and, and I loved it because it, it, there was nothing to wash. Okay. There was plenty of like, there’s plenty of, so practical going everywhere’s, practic, you work clean, no laundry, your wife clean, that’s great.

Same old flannel, just throw it around a bit. Fabulous. You know? And then, and for her, and then, and then the, the year she turned her, yeah, the year she turned one, you know, again, it was the summer and she was running around basically naked because she was outside and she could pee and poo outside. And I thought, oh, isn’t it so sad that we have to be so covered [00:31:00] up?

Yeah, yeah. Um, and you know, her little, her little nipples are out and her bums out and you just, you sort of just hope that. That, you know, she can enjoy that for as long as possible. And it, and it’s, and then, and then you think, oh God, I, I, I thought to myself, how many summers has she got left before, before she gets all, gets a bit weird about it.

Yeah. You know, you know, same thing. Or like me and my partner walking around naked, like, do you remember that feeling? Like, I just remember that feeling of like the fear of being at someone’s house and maybe seeing their dad naked. I don’t think that ever happened to me. I, it didn’t happen to me. But of course I worry.

Katherine May: But when I, when I met my husband, ’cause his mother is Swiss, um, nakedness comes into that relationship surprisingly fast. And you’re like, oh, okay, here we are then. Do you feel a bit Swiss? Because they’re not bothered 

Melissa Hemsley: now. 

Katherine May: Have you adopted that? Yeah, I’ve, I’ve become, I’ve become definitely more naked with like being married to a Swiss person because they don’t, I need to care.

Melissa Hemsley: Maybe if me and my boyfriend break up, I’ll just try and find a Swiss person. Are you [00:32:00] planning that? Is that I love cheese. I love chocolate. I mean, I’m being Exactly, and I love the fresh. Do they 

Katherine May: do pretty much only eat cheese and chocolate as well? That’s not, is that true? That’s not a cultural stereotype.

That is. Okay. That’s literally what they eats all the time. It’s cheese, chocolate, naked. Great kish. Yeah, and naked kish. 

Melissa Hemsley: Yeah. 

Katherine May: Is that the cherry, cherry alcohol? 

Melissa Hemsley: Yeah. Yeah. What else, what, what, what other delicious Swiss dishes has he brought to the table in his courting and life? They, and do you have, have, do you have any traditions?

Katherine May: Not really, not particularly. I mean my, my family I suppose are quite traditional, but the, yeah, the Swiss have, uh, they’re very obsessed with salads. And are they, there’s like a, yeah, everything comes with like an array of salads and so there is a, a Swiss salad dressing that is always in the fridge that is the only salad dressing.

He will countenance being on things that has to go on everything. I 

Melissa Hemsley: can’t wait to Google this. 

Katherine May: Do you like it? I dunno if it’s just his family. It’s really nice. It is really, really nice. Um, is it creamy? It involves, it’s creamy. It’s like, you know, it’s just, it’s more or less a French [00:33:00] dressing with a lot of mayonnaise in and then lots of that AAP powder.

’cause the Swiss put AAP powder in everything. In my experience, I have to not look at the ingredients list. ’cause otherwise it’s troubling. But um, but yeah, that goes into everything that they do. So 

Melissa Hemsley: naked and salad dressing, that’s what I’m getting from that Naked. 

Katherine May: Um, so are you telling me that this is a naked retreat?

Is this your long way of saying it’s a naked retreat? I’m gonna be new. It’s a 

Melissa Hemsley: naked retreat. Yeah. Yeah. What 

Katherine May: about the neighbors? Are you gonna cover up or are they gonna be ISTs? 

Melissa Hemsley: No, actually, see, I would never be, I would never see, this is the thing. I wouldn’t actually like to go on a Newie beach. Um, okay.

So I’m like, okay, naked enough that I can be, feel free, but not so naked that anyone feels uncomfortable. Okay. Yeah. Um, minimal clothing and barefoot, minimal clothing retreats. I love being barefoot, but then also I wanna be cool enough that when I have, when I run a bath in the evening, it feels good. 

Katherine May: No, that’s okay.

There’s that. 

Melissa Hemsley: So you can have like a 

Katherine May: nice evening temperature 

Melissa Hemsley: drop so you can have a nice bath. That’d lovely. [00:34:00] Thank you. And I’d like the fire on. 

Katherine May: Yeah. Okay. Outdoor bath under the stars, 

Melissa Hemsley: or as long as the, the, the wild animals don’t get me. This is is back firing honestly. It’s backfiring. It’s, yeah. Yeah. As long as only the animals that I know that like me, leave me alone, I sort of overthinking this.

But yeah. I’d love the outdoor to come in as much as possible. So, um, yeah, windows open. I would love to live in a, uh, my retreat to be, you know, feel safe enough to have the door unlocked. 

Katherine May: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that’s the thing is dream, that’s, that’s part of what we can create here is this feeling of perfect safety and yeah.

I think that’s what I’m always looking for. The dream, the safety. Mm-hmm. 

Melissa Hemsley: The safety and the slowness. 

Katherine May: Yeah. Yeah. Safety and slowness. It’s very hard to achieve in real life, but some, some places have a vibe that lets you feel okay about everything, I think. Mm-hmm. Right. So we ask you. If there was a, an object you’d [00:35:00] bring with you to this retreat, something to remind you of home, something for comfort, what would you bring or something you need?

Maybe, 

Melissa Hemsley: I’m trying to think of, I think maybe it would be texturing, maybe it would be like a big light cardigan, blankety, something that would feel safe that I could cocoon in that’s not necessarily there for temperature, but it would smell like loveliness and I would feel good in it and it would be multipurpose.

Um, I think 

Katherine May: it would be something of that ilk. I wa I wondered if you’d bring a kitchen thing. ’cause I’m terrible for always wanting to bring my kitchen knives on holiday and a spatula. ’cause there’s never a really good rubbery spatula. And I always just, that’s, I just wanna know that I, I’ve got a spatula.

Melissa Hemsley: Oh, that’s so funny. I’ve got a vision of you now. Pack with the spatula, with your, with your checklist and number one on the top of the spatula. Knives. See, knives are not, whenever, sometimes when I cook with other chefs, say we do a charity dinner or something, and they turn up with their roll of knives, I’m always like, I’m always like, God, I, I’m not a proper chef because I don’t, [00:36:00] I just don’t think I’ve got bring my own it.

It’s just those 

Katherine May: holiday cottage knives, isn’t it? Yes. 

Melissa Hemsley: Yeah. They’re a danger. Talk about health and safety. They’re awful. They’re ping off of everything. Life is the worst. Yeah. Um, terrible. But now that you’ve said salad dressing, like, you know, I think like, I’m trying to think of my comfort food. I think, I think I would feel lost somewhere without some butter.

So I think there’d have to be some butter or some oil or some source of fat. Yeah. That would help me make anything delicious. Mm-hmm. Maybe I could forage in the woodlands, you know, like everything is delicious with some butter or some oil. Um, absolutely. Yeah. I don’t have a pan I’m connected to. It’s funny.

You know, there was recently, I’m sure we’ve all seen in the news, there’s a, another big fire and I was thinking obviously about, about all the poor people and their poor animals and the, the fear of their neighbors. And then I was thinking, I know you’re supposed to not grab anything, but people often will say, well, what?

Or Yeah. You know, what would you grab on a fire? [00:37:00] And I don’t really have anything apart from my dog and my baby and my partner. Yeah. And, and I kind of like, in a nice way that’s quite nice to have that non-attachment. Mm. Um, I dunno, maybe it comes a little bit from being an army kid. Like I just didn’t really ever, yeah.

It’s not like we left a house and didn’t have things to take, but I’ve never, there’s never one thing that I’m, I’m even looking around now and I’m thinking, is there nothing I’d really, it makes sense. Yours? You, you had 

Katherine May: to be, I, I’m actually pretty similar. I, I actually did manage to set light to my, my house last year, earlier this year.

Um, and by being stupid with a candle and I grabbed the cat, you know, that was it. I mean, obviously family, but there wasn’t an item that I worried about. I, there’s something really light about that for me. I, yeah, I have lovely possessions that I love, but I can live without them for sure. Yeah. 

Melissa Hemsley: Yeah. It would be okay.

Mm. What about your glasses? How pause your [00:38:00] eyesight? 

Katherine May: Oh, my eyesight. Re looking at fantastic eyesight. My eyes, they’re always on my face. Like they would not. Okay, good. You know, they would not not be on my face. I, I can’t see. So, um, 

Melissa Hemsley: yeah. Do you only take them off when you get into bed? Oh 

Katherine May: yeah. I 

Melissa Hemsley: can’t see anything without them.

It’s really funny ’cause you just reminded me one thing that I’ve been, well, two things that I’ve been absolutely loving. I have been going to somatic classes. Do you know what that is? Sort of, yeah. Like to towards 

Katherine May: calming the nervous system. Yeah. Safety, 

Melissa Hemsley: gentle movements. Mm. Um, I’ve been going to those for quite a while, but recently, at the beginning of this year, I wrote down, I went up to on this workshop called Priorities.

And you pick three priorities and you share them with the group in order, sort of commit to them. And one of them was go to to Qigong. Mm-hmm. And I was like, and they were like, so why do you like Qigong? And I was like, well, I have spent a little bit of time in China. And like more rural, well, not rural, but not, not the major cities, although actually mm.

15 years ago it wasn’t a major city, but it [00:39:00] now is. Right. Um, and people would be doing chi, you know, the, the elderly or, you know, 15 years ago I thought everybody was old, but people would be out at Sunrise doing Qigong and Tai Chi, um, in big groups and parks. You know, not wearing any special athletic gear, just doing it and Yeah.

And living it. That’s an incredible site. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. And it’s everywhere and it’s just part of life. Mm-hmm. Um, and then I would, would maybe hear about it or someone would say they like it. I go, I’d always put it on my list of things to do because I was like, that’s got to be good for my nervous system.

That’s gotta be good for my anxiety. And I love yoga and I know it’s not the same, but I love breath and movement. There’s of, I also love routines that are so slow and lovely. Yeah. Yeah. And, and Qigong also has, I’m no expert obviously, but it also has stories and rituals. So you are like, you’ll, you sort of, um.

Mine will make the movement of using a bucket to sort of pick up. Right, right. You know your shit. Mm-hmm. And then you’ll sort of do like a kind of Qigong shower where [00:40:00] you’ll let things go and over you. Anyway, I put that down on my list of things to do this year and I’ve started doing it anyway. As I ramble on, I am gonna come back to why it relates to your glasses.

Katherine May: Sorry. How did we get here? 

Melissa Hemsley: Um, I went to a somatic class and the teacher said, if you feel comfortable enough, I would love you to take your glasses off. Oh, no. And some, and, and I could, but some people in the class couldn’t. I would fall over immediately. Okay. Well this is interesting. So someone was sort of saying similar and she said, oh gosh.

Well, you know, it’s the opposite of what you wanna feel. You don’t feel worried in thematics class, but it. In the end, there came a point where the person in the class was able to take their glasses off, and then after the class, I had her talking to the teacher and saying how she felt like she could relax on another level, because by taking her glasses off her nose, it sent a signal to her body that it was time to rest.

Oh. And that she didn’t need to be on that [00:41:00] time feeling. Yeah. So she was, yeah, conflicted between needing to be able to see and not fall over, but also knowing that it was safe to rest. Oh, that’s interesting. I thought that’s really interesting. Um, yeah. In terms of your question of what I would bring with me on my retreat, I, I would like to bring a sense of openness and lack of fear.

That’s just it, isn’t it? Is this gonna, it’s be a really, really depressing episode of your No, I think this is me just going on about all my weird fears. I think when 

Katherine May: we share our weirdness with others, others feel very affirmed. I think that’s, there go. I needed that. I needed you to remind me of that. But it is, I mean.

It is so hard to come to these things in the right frame of mind. I, I often find on holiday. It, it just takes me a, a while to really get into it, to, to allow it to happen, not to be trying to run it, you know, I’m running stuff every day, life, I’m making things happen. I’m motivating myself and I get on holiday and I’m [00:42:00] like, Ooh, what, ooh, what am I supposed to do here?

It’s really hard. 

Melissa Hemsley: I, not that I’ve got the choice to like pick and choose financially or time-wise when I can go on holiday, but there have been points where I’ve almost, or or have not gone on holiday or.

Place where I’ve just gone. No, because I know that I won’t be able to relax and enjoy it, so I’d rather not go. 

Katherine May: Yeah, yeah. I can’t, I can’t hand myself over to it. 

Melissa Hemsley: Sad. Yeah, no, I know. You know that feeling like, oh, I’m not gonna go on that because I know how stressed I’ll get about getting on a plane even.

And I know when I’m at the end, I’m kind of fine, although it is obviously hyper simulating, but the fear of like getting there, doing it sometimes, like I’d rather just, I think I’d feel more relaxed at home to be honest. Much. Yeah. And I, I, I hate that. So retreats, I have been on some marvelous retreats and actually, [00:43:00] um, the one that I, I, I haven’t been on many where I’ve repeated, but there’s one retreat that I’ve gone on and I’ve been on it three times and it’s kind of difficult to go on now because now I’ve got my, my most sweet girl and yeah, makes it another on the way, but.

When I think about the bits that I loved the most was, yeah, I had my own room and bathroom and there were people around, but everybody was doing their own thing. And we’d come together and then we’d leave. And what was also really nice is there was a communal, you know, there was a dining room, we all ate together, but there was a room off the room where you could go and sit if you wanted to be alone.

Yeah. So I, I, I feel like that’s what I, the sort of life I’d like where there are people, but it’s also okay to take yourself off and do your own thing with really lovely dip in and out. Dip in out. Yeah. And in the evenings after dinner, I remember being like, oh, I’m so tired. Because we were doing some [00:44:00] emotional work as well, and then I’d be like, oh, I, I can’t be bothered.

But then we would go and go into a room and we’d lie down and we would do some really gentle movement or uh, uh, gentle meditation. And, um, I. And then we would go back to our room. Mm. And I remember every night going, oh, I’ve just eaten. I don’t wanna do that. And then every night loving it. And I would be so pissed off with myself that I was constantly having a wrestle.

I was like, why can’t I just be someone that goes, I wanna, I’m on a retreat. I’ve paid to be on this retreat. I’ve sorted my life out to be on the street. I’m gonna follow the retreat and enjoy it. I’m gonna hand myself 

Katherine May: over. Yeah. 

Melissa Hemsley: I was like, I wish we weren’t doing that. And then I’m like, Melissa, you did.

You said the same thing last night and you enjoyed it. God, I would just like my brain to just 

Katherine May: turn off for a bit. So you’ve literally handed yourself over to this and then re resisting it? It’s exactly what I do. Whenever I have a massage, I’m like, oh, no. Same. It’s hard. I’ve got better at that [00:45:00] actually.

That’s a strength. Wow. Give me some tips on that. Please, please. I was, um, I was somebody’s massage body for a while while they were training. Wow. And so I spent hours and hours being massaged and spent hours with her, like holding my arm going, give it to me, hand it over. I needed, I needed to do that. And I, I just kind of learned, eventually learned how to consciously un like, ha it was give, it was the act of giving it that really helped me.

That word, like give your arm to me really helped me to understand what I was trying to do. Wow. It’s not your arm at the moment. My arm right now, I am massaging it. I’ll look after after it and then I’ll give it back to you. Like, that was, that helped me to think about it. That’s really interesting. Are you gonna do Tai Chi or Qigong on your retreat?

Yeah. Are you gonna be like, I’d love to, you know, doing all of the movements and Yeah. I mean, is that how you’re spend your days? I think 

Melissa Hemsley: what I’d really love to do is. Be outdoors, feeding all my wild and [00:46:00] domestic animals, feeding the sun, having a swim without fear of drowning or a shark getting me.

Mm-hmm. Um, then 

Katherine May: we’ve installed shark nets around the silly aisles for you, so you know you’re okay. Um, 

Melissa Hemsley: thank you for that. Uh, I then maybe cook something on a fire without fear of causing a forest fire. Um, and then I would read, I would qigong, I would like, I would have both a fil a full day and an empty day, if that makes sense.

I’d somehow be able to magically find the balance of doing lovely things. It’s like when you have a pottering day and at the end of the day you go, oh my gosh. Like, I really enjoyed that potter. I, I, I did some stuff without realizing I was doing it. Um. And they’d be reading maybe a hammock between some trees.

Oh, yes. It’s definitely a [00:47:00] hammock. I think that’s essential. Um, maybe a nap. I, when I look at my daughter or my dog and they’re napping, I just think, oh my God. Look at their sweet faces and how safe they feel. And I would love to be able to have that myself. Yeah. Um, and then, uh, then I’d probably love to put the TV on the fire on.

Have some cheese, chocolate, wine, or have a glass of wine. All the migraine triggers. All the migraine, but then in migraine, there’d be no migraine. Yeah. Mi migraines wouldn’t exist. That sounds perfect. Um, and nor, and then also I’d be really hydrated, but would never need to get up in the night to pee. Oh.

Katherine May: And someone please arrange that for me, there must be an optimal level of hydration where everything is in balance, you know, and your body just retains it. It’s fine. You’ve just, oh, it’s so bad. You just kind of [00:48:00] plumped up with water, 

Melissa Hemsley: plumped up with Yeah, that’d be nice. Um, and my days would just sort of go like that.

And then as I say, uh uh, the person across the, my fence would come round. Some green gauges. I dunno why I said a green gauge. It’s not my favorite fruit. Green gauges. I have a green gauge too. How random you do? Yeah. Oh lovely. Yeah. See I really enjoy a green gauge, but then I dunno 

Katherine May: how, why that came into my head.

They only crop like every five years or something. They’re truly annoying tree to have. So when someone’s 

Melissa Hemsley: given me their green gauges, they’ve really given me love. Yes. ’cause it was only once a roof. Oh my gosh. 

Katherine May: Yeah. They cropped this year though. It was a MA year for loads of things this year and green gauges was one of them.

So I got green gauge. What else? What other trees have you got? I’ve just got the green gauge. You inherited it? Only one. No, I planted it actually. Oh, you 

Melissa Hemsley: planted 

Katherine May: it? Yeah. Why did you pick a green gauge tree outta all the trees? Well, I live in Kent, so it’s a very kentish thing, a green gauge. So I wanted something really [00:49:00] local.

I did also plant a very local apple tree, but that didn’t, that didn’t succeed. But the green gauge is actually very happy. It just doesn’t produce many green gauges. 

Melissa Hemsley: When did you know that apple tree wasn’t happy? It let you know quite quickly. It literally 

Katherine May: died. Yeah. Within a. Yeah. Oh, it just, it just died straight off.

But um, yeah. Now you’ve just 

Melissa Hemsley: reminded me of Ken, I think a little bit of my retreat and sort of fantasy is a little bit darling. Buds of May. Oh yes. Pluck Lee. That’s where that was all shot. Is that far from you? It’s about an 

Katherine May: hour, 

Melissa Hemsley: yes. So when I come and visit you, I know that I can stop off there. And that feeling of the abundance, like the, the kind of calm chaos, like I’m, okay.

So I’m thinking of, I read, I watched the TV show, the original TV show, obvious, obviously. Catherine C. Jones. C oh my gosh. Catherine Catherine’s, e Jones, so Young, Ferris, David, David, um, David, David, Jason, David, Jason, Jason, David, Jason, David, Jason. So like that, that, [00:50:00] you know, I read, I, I, I watched the TV show and then laterally read.

The books. Um, so that feeling of like you, you’re checking a in your neighbors as animal. See, actually now when I think about it, there’s lot of, it’s a farm. It’s very kind of bucolic your, your fantasy. It’s that true and that feeling of everybody pulling together at Christmas or when something went wrong Mm.

People pulled together, but they also had their own space. And that, that kit, that farm table where, you know, it was, you know, ma um, Mar would be at the stove and she would say the piles of food two x or three, three x or four. And that just feeling of just being like, how safe did you feel with Mar? And you know, her daughter were called Mart and Petia and, and used to after and used to sit in the bath eating a fried 

Katherine May: breakfast.

I used to love that. 

Melissa Hemsley: Catherine, you just took the words out my mouth. That’s that’s the dream. That fried breakfast. Yeah. Together and that sense of like sex and frisk that they had. With their seven [00:51:00] kids and like being in love. But he was also a bit of a flap. It was never, never 

Katherine May: gross somehow 

Melissa Hemsley: Was it, it it was always wasn’t kind of wasn’t.

It was beautifully done that to, yeah. Oh, I’ve gotta watch that right now. That’s, that’s what I’m gonna do with my, that’s what you can watch maternity leave. Yes. So, um, yeah. That, that feeling of like having fun and like just an innocent world. 

Katherine May: Yeah. 

Melissa Hemsley: It’s like childhood. Yeah. But childhood with no parents.

Mm. All that sweet stuff. 

Katherine May: It’s like those, those lovely children’s novels where the kids just take over and have an adventure. Yes. And no one’s there say, there go Thank you. Oh, you shouldn’t really be busting criminal drug smuggling rings kids. It’s not really very safe, you know, it’s just like, no, it’s fine for children to do that.

We think. We think that’s fine. That’s okay. 

Melissa Hemsley: Yeah. You’ve hit the nail on the head. You’ve got me there it is. That sort of. Starling buds of may, not quite swallows in Amazons, but that kind of like, let’s have a picnic and go off and be outdoors and come home when it gets dark and everything’s safe and mm-hmm.

You know, like we’re having a good time. [00:52:00] That’s probably what I’d like the most. Um, I, I don’t think I’ve ever felt safe enough, and I’m sure this applies to a lot of people, especially women, to just go off somewhere super quiet and soli, soli duty and not felt vulnerable, 

Katherine May: not worried about it. Yeah. Yeah. 

Melissa Hemsley: So I think that would be one of the probably priorities of my retreat.

It’s just a felt 

Katherine May: really safe, 

Melissa Hemsley: which makes me sad that we don’t get to feel that. 

Katherine May: No, I know. And that it’s got to be a pipe dream. We always have to worry about it little. Yeah. And we always ask if you’ll bring like a piece of art of some kind, but I wonder if that is too much choosing. Again, I wonder if your kind of minimalist approach means that actually you might just like to not do that.

Yeah, 

Melissa Hemsley: I think, I think what I’d most like to look at is the, the sea, the trees. What’s popping by the window? What bird, what belief? I can see. Yeah. I don’t, again, I don’t feel hugely attached to, [00:53:00] I mean, I’ll tell you what, one day my, my poor dogs. Almost 12, and she just had three tumors removed last week.

Bless her. If, if, if I were to think about one object, I probably will at some point have, I’ve got photos of her now, but I think probably a pho, a photo of her or something that is her and her gorgeous sweet face and her little gray beard, which she’s had almost. Its a puppy that will probably be the one visual and one object because I’ll, you know, she’s my first dog and I’d, I’d love to live a long life with all the dogs as, as I told you.

Yeah. Yeah. And she will be some, a pic. She will probably be, yeah, a picture of her, of some sort. Oh, that’s lovely. 

Katherine May: It’s time for you to leave your lovely retreat. Tell me when you know that you’re ready to go home. Like, is it, is it quite soon or do you know? Do you just like, no, don’t take me back there. 

Melissa Hemsley: No, I don’t.

I also, I don’t wanna, I don’t wanna, well I thought you were gonna say it’s time to leave this podcast. I don’t wanna, I’m feeling safe in this podcast. You [00:54:00] can, you can be here. It’s okay. Safe and world. Um. When will I know? Well, based on my itty bitty responses to everything, it’s like, I know, I don’t know.

I never know how I feel. I love mm-hmm. I, I love the idea of listening to my intuition. And I think sometimes I do, and as sometimes I don’t, which means I not always listening to it, but I’d hope that I would know when it’s time to go. 

Katherine May: Yeah. 

Melissa Hemsley: But at the same time, um, I would wanna be careful of not wishing it away.

Mm. While also a bit like we talked about you and I sharing that feeling of the control piece of I would love to live life not thinking there’s three days left, there’s two days left, or, oh, I can’t quite enjoy my cup of tea because I know that I’ve only got 16 minutes left before I have to. 

Katherine May: Yeah, it always feels like holidays are over before they’ve almost [00:55:00] began.

For me, I’m always like, oh, only three sleeps left. That’s really not very long now. And I, it’s been like, I feel 

Melissa Hemsley: you. 

Katherine May: Yeah. I 

Melissa Hemsley: kind of feel like I, um, have, have been a bit like that in all my responses. You’ve been helping me conjure up these, like, lovely visuals and then I’ve sort of like, 

Katherine May: there’s that little bit of you that kind of spoiled them a bit, a lever underneath, or I’m like, oh, no, but it might be unpleasant.

Yeah. Yeah. And 

Melissa Hemsley: like 

Katherine May: almost a bit scared that, but we, that you’re 

Melissa Hemsley: conjuring up these lovely things in my brain and then, um, you know, at the same time. But you, I, I guess, I guess what, I guess most of all on my retreat, I’d most like to feel safe, but just like myself and not be, be at peace with myself more than anything.

Mm-hmm. My, I guess the dream retreat would be me, not wherever I am, not having a go at myself. Yeah, 

Katherine May: just allowing yourself 

Melissa Hemsley: to just be there. Maybe you’d get an electric shock every time [00:56:00] you thought something nasty about yourself. No. That you’ve made it 

Katherine May: unpleasant again. You pulled it around again. See, you 

Melissa Hemsley: do 

Katherine May: not want that.

That is not retreaty at all. No, 

Melissa Hemsley: not 

Katherine May: Retreaty. That is a hundred percent like not a retreat suggestion. Well, I always ask people at the end what they’re gonna bring home with them, but I wonder if that’s the feeling that you might like to bring home is just being okay with being there, you know, being.

Doing nothing with just being that, that would be a lovely thing to bring back. 

Melissa Hemsley: Yeah. 

Katherine May: And maybe a little red squirrel. 

Melissa Hemsley: Oh yeah. Compan. Just a little squirrel, little red squirrel. That would live forever. Because already I’m worrying about when it might die. 

Katherine May: I dunno how long squirrels live, actually, that’s a, that’s an important question.

Don’t make me Google it tonight. They are. No, no, let’s not think about the mortality of schools. I’ll let you bring home a eternal squirrel. An eternal squirrel, just. The, the squirrel that lives forever. The, 

Melissa Hemsley: the, the, the crazy lady in her little red squirrel, [00:57:00] 

Katherine May: ancient squirrel. It probably, it would probably die the moment that you die, so it wouldn’t be lonely.

Oh, that’s a lovely thought. It’s like a demon in That’s funny. My 

Melissa Hemsley: dog, I just, I just had my dog go. What? Oh God. Hear her? 

Katherine May: Yes. I could hear her. She’s listening. 

Melissa Hemsley: She knew. She knew. Time was up. Yeah. 

Katherine May: That’s it. Well, thank you so much. You need to tend to your lovely dog. But um, it’s been wonderful. Thank you, Katherine.

Melissa Hemsley: Absolute dream come true. 

Katherine May: It’s been really fun.

Hey, I’m back again. Nice to see you. I was just in the course of my stroll, getting self-conscious about the noise that’s coming from various houses that I pass. Everyone seems to be doing up their house. There are new windows going in, left, right, and center. Clearly it’s got to that point in winter when everyone’s like, something must be done.

And then I [00:58:00] remember that actually it’s really important to share walks that don’t just take place in perfect wildernesses. Part of my daily walking habits is to just walk from my front door to not try and make it too perfect to just get out and breathe some air because I always feel better afterwards.

And that’s exactly what I’m doing today as I record this message for you. And I think it’s okay that there are drills in the background and cars going past ’cause that’s how we actually take breaks rather than always doing something that’s Instagrammable. My life is not very Instagramable Try. I might.

Oh, that’s lovely. There are roses still on the bush that I’m passing. I look a little bit tired and old, but they’re clinging on. [00:59:00] We’re not all falling apart yet. Oh, I hope you’re very much cheered by an hour in the company of Melissa Hemsley. She is so fun to be with. I will put notes at the bottom of this podcast episode to link you to her Substack newsletter, her Instagram account, which are always so full of brilliant ideas.

I wish I’d told her how often I make her chocolate peanut butter oat bars. I’m not sure what she calls them. They become a real habit in my house, a lovely snack or a breakfast that I can throw together and feel like I’ve done some good in the world. It’s a fleeting feeling, but there we go. Oh. Anyway, I’m nearly home.

I will be back with you in a week’s time with [01:00:00] another dream retreat. But in the meantime, take excellent care of yourself and we will talk soon. Bye.